Interview with Irene Carroll

INTERVIEW WITH IRENE CARROLL, PAST NATIONAL CHAIRMAN, LOCAL AUTHORITY CATERERS ASSOCIATION

“For most of us, the healthy eating campaign started with Jamie Oliver and the Channel 4 programme, did the Channel 4 programme have a great influence on your organisation’s charter or its vision for the future?”

“Jamie raised the profile of school meals and raised the profile of how badly some children were eating at the time both in, and out of, school. Unfortunately he gave the impression that all school meals were like the school they were showing and this wasn’t the case. Many primary schools in particular had been using the Caroline Walker Trust guidelines for years and there were primary school children getting very good food. Obviously some weren’t and perhaps some authorities did not embrace it in the same way as others but the mistake was to imply that the lowest common denominator was the norm. He alienated many people and changed the perception of parents giving them the impression that all school catering was rubbish. This wasn’t the case at all.”

“How did your members react to being criticised by a well publicised celebrity?”

“I think, given the chance, my staff would have lynched him. They were very upset. It was a horrendous time during those first few weeks after Jamie’s programme we had to do a lot of work to try to get the message out to parents “Hang on a minute, that isn’t right.” I was featured on GMTV Breakfast Time and took the opportunity to say to parents “Please go into your schools and see for yourselves … if you don’t like the food being offered then do something about it but if you do like the food then please support your dinner service”

“Life has moved on a lot since the Jamie effect, can you summarise your members achievements over that 2 or 3 year period?”

“There has been a great deal achieved so, having knocked Jamie, I have to say that what has come out of it has been beneficial for the whole country. The School Food Trust was formed and they have achieved a great deal. They have of course had the money to do it, which has made a big difference. They have organised cooks conferences around the country and the guidance and documentation they have produced is brilliant. They have had to listen as well since there are issues that possibly they don’t appreciate … issues that we have to deal with at the front line.”

“There are many people involved in the equation, parents, headteachers, local authorities, your own caterers, the School Food Trust themselves. What limiting factors were there in achieving what you would have liked to achieve?”

“We are ruled by government legislation and by what our authorities tell us to do and we have to work within their standards and codes of practice. There is sometimes a gap between what the SFT wanted us to achieve and what we know we can achieve within the limitations imposed by our authorities. I do get very upset when people keep telling us our cooks can’t cook and that they are not trained. Whilst some of our cooks have had inadequate training, and there is always an element that let you down, most of our cooks have had first class training … they can cook and given the opportunity will produce excellent food. We have proved that within our own LACA organisation, we have a ‘school chef of the year’. At the final, when the most superb food was produced, there was no media, there were no cameras. It was a ‘good news’ story so they weren’t there. If you give the people the tools to do the job, they will do it. You cant take £400 million out of a service, put back £240 million some five years later and expect to get the same results. We are in a situation where the money that has come from Government is very helpul but it is a long way short of what is realistically needed. We are not yet able to say we’ve got our budgets right and can go forward with a 5 year plan that we can actually work to. The funding is not there.”

“And besides the funding?”

“The whole school approach is the most important thing. Headteachers and governors must support their catering service whether it is just for lunchtimes or right through the day. Parents too have got to be involved. They must appreciate that all the work being done at school is for the benefit of their children. There are few places they can get a meal for under £2, one that is nutritionally balanced has all the right nutrients and will give their child the energy that they need during the day. It really is important that all the elements of the school engage with the caterers to ensure that in the future we are all working together towards a common end. It’s about a whole school approach and, if that doesn’t work, then we will really have problems”

“I understand that part of the Jamie effect was a reduction in the take-up of school meals and in 2006 you took the unprecented step of producing and showing a TV commercial. Was this a case of fighting fire with fire?”

“Yes … we knew we had to get through to parents and make them realise that the food that was going to be served from September 2006 onwards was excellent food. Not that it wasn’t excellent before in many cases. But we really needed to get the message through to parents and 3 of us concocted this wonderful idea of having a TV ad. We thought it was way out of our realm but we did it. The outcome was interesting because GMTV decided to do a pre and post survey and this showed that before the ad most parents thought that Jamie was absolutely right and that school meals were awful. However, after the ad it was amazing how their perception had changed. They were astounded at what was what was going to be offered in schools. This is the standard we have set, this is what you should be having and most schools, not all, have embraced and tried to achieve that.”

“And has the Campaign been successful in terms of take up?

“Yes. Primary school numbers are going up consistently now I am told. The drop off was colossal after Jamie’s programme but we are getting back now to where we were. We’ve still got a way to go but the primary schools are getting back. Unfortunately in secondary schools the latest figures we have seen nationally are that take up is down so we are going to have to look at that very carefully. The new standards do effect them more than primary schools. I think that what will be served in secondary schools in two or three years time will be a plated meal and a pudding. We are changing the whole system. I can see cash cafeterias making way for a cashless system in order to get the children through. Secondary school lunchtime periods are the plague of my life at present … how do you get 1,000 plus children through in 25 – 35 minutes? We have got to lobby strongly for a longer lunchtime break in secondary schools. We need 45 minutes … an hour would be superb … but 45 minutes to allow children to have a proper meal, to sit down and eat it in a good environment.”

“ So what does the future hold? What are the topics for discussion over the next 5 to 10 years.”

Schools have to be supported by parents and pupils, by the Healthy Schools accreditation and project workers, by the Primary Care Trusts, by everyone whose concern is to ensure that in 10 years time children do not have an obesity problem. But, just as important, we’ve looked at the children who are undernourished. We must give support to every school caterer whether they are run by the local authorities whether they are single site, whether they are independent and ensure that the money is there to fulfil the government agenda. And it is about funding at the end of the day. But the caterers are a tenacious breed, they will hang in there and they will make it work. They are not the problem they are the solution.”

Biography of Irene Carroll, Past National Chairman, Local Authority Caterers Association (LACA)

Irene Carroll was elected National Chairman of the Local Authority Caterers Association (LACA) in July 2006 and served in the post until July 2007. Irene has been a Member of LACA since 1990, a Member of LACA’s National Council for four years and, previously, Chair of LACA’s Standards Committee.

She has over 38 years’ experience in the catering industry and was City Catering General Manager and Education Catering Client for Southampton City Council until retiring in September 2006. She oversaw the growth and development of City Catering since its inception in 1997 when Southampton became a unitary authority. Before taking up her role as General Manager in Southampton, she was with Hampshire County Council where she held several posts including Catering and Training Adviser, Divisional Catering Manager and Operations Manager.

Her career began with a three-year course in Catering Management at Portsmouth College of Technology. She spent three years as a Catering Manager for the John Lewis Partnership, seven years in the licensed trade and has 28 years’ experience in the school meals service.